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DePaul University College of Law, 2012
Why did you decide to enter the legal profession?
I’m the first attorney in my family and had no ambition to enter the legal profession (actually, my father forbade it). But at Northwestern University — after I flunked out of pre-med — I was mentored by the amazing Laura Beth Nielsen, who focuses on the law’s capacity for solving individual and social problems based on hierarchies of unearned privilege. I came home from college all fired up about the history of law, using law to question everything, seeing if we could devise better rules and tools. And yes, my dad eventually came around!
What does “diversity, equity and inclusion” mean to you?
DEI means building systems in which each person can thrive in their own way without barriers. It’s really that simple.
How did you get involved in DEI work, and why have you stuck with it?
I dabbled in “DEI work” in some way throughout my law career. As a partner at Church Church Hittle & Antrim, I co-founded and led the DEI Committee, pushing for things like equitable parental leave and expanding our all-white interview pools. I created an internal program called “CCHA’s Own: Inclusivity Conversations,” where our employees would talk on a quarterly basis about something that made them unique and how others might consider inclusive culture. For example, a Muslim support staff member talked about how their family observed Ramadan, how to intentionally schedule meetings during Ramdan, and how to pronounce “Ramadan Mubarak.” I talked at so many conferences and committees about how positive the feedback was for these Inclusivity Conversations, and I’ve been told several other businesses have adopted a similar model! Be still my heart.
I also spent that decade defending schools and businesses in claims related to disability, sex, race and religion, and got a ton of experience in how people experience protected class law from different perspectives. I had folks from the U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on speed dial.
But in 2020, I became really sick and it was touch-and-go for a bit in the ICU. Thank God, I slowly recovered and started experiencing a euphoria that my therapist called “post-traumatic happiness.” I woke up every morning so grateful for every little moment, you’d think I was permanently high. I had long been passionate about exploring a more formal, full-time marriage between law and DEI work, so now was the time! I searched for the best formal DEI executive leadership program and put myself through a year at Northwestern University on leading equity and inclusion in organizations. My cohort included leaders from Google, Boeing, LinkedIn, KPMG and Old National Bank, all these remarkable leaders around the world who become my lifelong inspirations and friends. That program eventually led to my own platform where we combine compliance and culture: Imprint Legal Group. I’m a full-time “DEI lawyer” now, surrounded by diverse lawyers and consultants who are just as passionate as me.
Sticking with it is a day-to-day recommitment. Outrage and disappointment are built into this work, but so is community, joy and “aha!” lightbulb moments. As a former teacher, I live for those lightbulb moments. Legally compliant, inclusive culture isn’t magic or rocket science. It’s the difference between a leader saying, “How do I not get sued?” versus, “How do I build a space that’s so inclusive, lawsuits become unfathomable?” When I get to walk that path with a genuinely curious leader and see their “aha” moment, it’s worth sticking with this work.
What would you say to someone who perceives “DEI” as a business “buzzword”?
I’d say you’re right. How people understand “DEI” right now, it is a business buzzword. It’s a “check the box” training and ordering lunch from the Black-owned caterer instead of pizza (I jokingly refer to these as “pizza allies” in superhero capes). Much like we came to understand advertising in the 1950s or the internet in the 1990s, we will come to appreciate DEI as a widespread organizational objective. Real DEI is evidence-based, data-driven, integrated, well-funded systemic practices that ensure each employee can grow and each child can learn. The overwhelming majority of us have never seen real DEI in practice. Yet.
What is the most significant change you’ve seen in the legal profession since you began your career?
The most significant change is the unwillingness of the younger generation to sacrifice themselves for these jobs.
As a young associate, I wore a beloved shirt with a calavera (a sugar skull popular for Dia de los Muertos) on it to the office. A prolonged side eye from the managing partner (think Miranda Priestly from “The Devil Wears Prada”) was enough for me to shift to a “work uniform” of black suits, solid shirts and sensible heels. I truly believed that adjustment was necessary to advance my career. Years later, we hired a brilliant, energetic younger attorney named Chandler Lawson Flynn who showed up to the office every day confidentially in neon-bright clothes, funky patterns, trendy accessories. She doesn’t even own a black suit! She inspired me in such a simple way: to dress the way I wanted to.
I’ve seen younger male lawyers proudly take sixteen 16 of parental leave with their baby. I’ve seen attorneys with locs, tattoos and nose piercings in court. I’ve seen a single mom attorney announce that the deposition has a hard stop at 3:30 p.m. because she needs to pick up her kid. I really couldn’t imagine any of this just a few years ago.
Almost all of us can remember a part of ourselves that we gave up in order to survive in the system, and these newer lawyers are reclaiming that and changing the game. I am constantly galvanized by their example.
What’s the best advice you’ve ever received?
My former law partner, Steve Lutz, brilliantly advised all associates to start emails with “As I understand it … ,” and summarize the main facts, even if the reader already knows them, before your legal answer. I repeat this to every law student and lawyer I mentor, but I take it further: Starting any difficult conversation in life with, “Here is the information I’m working with and here’s the perspective I’m coming from … what don’t I know?” leads to productive dialogue, not arguments. Lead with curiosity.
How do you spend your free time?
Every month, I read a banned book and try a new cookie recipe. My favorites in 2023 thus far have been “The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian” and Queen Anne’s Lace Cookies. Happy to share the recipe!
What was your favorite — and least favorite — class in law school?
Favorite: Constitutional Law. Least favorite: Any class in which the Rule Against Perpetuities was discussed. Ick.
You opened your firm to intentionally contract with underrepresented groups. Tell us about that.
Imprint Legal Group is a law and consulting firm built on disruptively equitable principles, like 90% of every dollar goes directly to the individual who did the work. We specialize in protected class work for organizations — not trying to create change with one plaintiff’s lawsuit at a time, but marrying legal compliance and culture to proactively create inclusive schools, businesses and nonprofits. We support general counsel and in-house counsel on those tricky, special situations involving race, sex, generational differences and LGBTQIA+ issues. The vision came first; the diverse talent flocked. All nine of us (lawyers, DEI experts, professors, therapists) embody some historically excluded identity: Black, transgender, Muslim, gay, disabled, single parent, immigrant, queer, women. I don’t think there’s a similar-sized law firm out there with this combination of lived experience and professional experience.
Much of your DEI work focuses on helping women, in particular. Why?
In the first months of my legal career, a supervisor committed some serious gender-based misconduct toward me. I know firsthand how that treatment can affect your confidence and ability to perform your job, but also affect your co-workers and loved ones. It’s always caused me to wonder: What kind of law career might I have had if I had been a man?
I work to create more spaces where women have to ask that question less. Or hopefully, never have to ask it at all.
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