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Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law, 2016
If you hadn’t pursued a legal career, what would you be doing?
I always had a strong interest in journalism. In college at DePauw University, I was in a media-focused honors program, wrote a weekly humor column for an online women’s magazine, interned at C-SPAN, and had a radio show (I gave myself a clever DJ name, was on air from 2-3 a.m. on Tuesdays, and my only consistent audience was my mom and dad, but I digress). If I weren’t a lawyer, I think I’d be a journalist.
What’s the best advice you’ve ever received?
When I was having a low moment, a friend once told me that I’m more powerful than I think I am and gently pointed out that I was the one in the driver’s seat in my life, yet I was also the one consistently saying no to myself. It was a wake-up call for me and helped break me out of the imposter syndrome I was experiencing at the time and take ownership of what I really wanted, in work and in life. I’ll never forget it.
What makes a good lawyer?
The ability to think objectively on behalf of your client. Your client needs you to be a zealous advocate, but you ultimately do them a disservice if you can’t understand the other side of their issue. In my practice, I have to be able to see the whole field and not blindly lead my client down a path that isn’t feasible or grounded in political reality. I have to provide the honest advantages and potential pitfalls of a public affairs strategy, and I can’t do that if I’m not analyzing the facts objectively on their behalf.
What’s the value of having both an MPA and a J.D.?
The first year of law school was tough for me because I knew going into it that I didn’t want to practice traditional law. I balanced out the “real law” work by going to graduate school at the same time, and it was a helpful addition to my legal education. The MPA was more substantive and gave me concrete policy analysis skills. The law degree was more analytical and taught me to think critically, understand how laws are implemented and how laws are interpreted by the judiciary after enactment.
Do you have a secret talent?
I know this is weird, but I can mimic a baby crying. I learned how to do it in high school, and I’ll bust it out as a party trick every once in a while. Proud to say it still hits.
Why did you decide to enter the legal profession?
I struggled with the decision initially. Law school was always something I said I was going to do growing up, but when the time came to apply during my senior year of college, I didn’t have a “why.” I had a better idea of what I didn’t want to do — family law, criminal law, litigation — and no concrete plan of what I did want to do in the profession. I took a year off after undergrad and a mentor of mine asked me if I’d ever considered lobbying as a career. He set me up with an internship at a boutique lobbying firm in Indianapolis, and I was hooked from there. I always had an interest in government and politics and learned through that experience that lobbying was a great fit for both my interests and my strengths. Of course, you don’t have to be a lawyer to be a lobbyist, but every lobbyist I talked to back then advised me to get a law degree — that it would help with credibility in a reputational business. I’ve found now that I’ve been in practice for a while that I approach lobbying differently because I’ve been trained as a lawyer — I think through issues differently and solve problems in a way I wouldn’t otherwise if I hadn’t gone to law school.
Who is someone who has inspired you in your career?
There are so many people who have mentored me throughout my life, both personally and professionally. No one gets anywhere in this business alone. One of the most impactful mentors for me was Anne Doran, whom I interned for at Ice Miller in 2014 and was lucky to work with once I was hired at the firm as an associate in 2021. Anne inspired me to be fearless in speaking my mind and voicing my opinions, even if they may not always be what someone wants to hear. She was an example to me of constant professionalism, true confidence and grace. I’m a better lobbyist and a stronger woman because of Anne’s example.
What is something you wish people knew about lawyers?
We don’t all litigate or practice in a courtroom. There are plenty of nontraditional lawyers out there and many paths you can take with a law degree.
How do you spend your free time?
I can usually be found cooking, reading, online shopping, doing a crossword, drinking a martini or rewatching a Marvel movie for the 1,000th time. Or any combination of those things.
What drew you to public affairs, and what do you enjoy about that practice area?
Public affairs is a relationship business, and I’m inherently a people person. I really enjoy working with clients, legislators and executive branch agency folks — I love getting to know them as people, what drives them and how I can help them accomplish their policy goals. As a multi-client lobbyist, I also love that I’m always learning. We represent clients in all different industries — health care, gaming, technology, energy, finance, etc., and I love that I have the opportunity to learn a little bit about everything. I’m never bored!•
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